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Talk:Tsuchigumo
Tsuchigumo vs. Gyuuki I've never seen a case where a demons name has changed in a Japanese game... even when the names are clearly bad, once they're in a game they're stuck for time memorial. Unless there is a direct name connection between Tsuchigumo and Gyuuki these are different devils. Gyuuki is Youjuu, and Tsuchigumo is Chirei apparently. Just because two devils look similar between games doesn't make them the same. PS: I get really confused when I see devils called "Wilder" and stuff from the Atlus USA games. Is it possible to favor the traditional Japanese race names or put one or the other in parenthesis? The USA names are very wonky because most of the names don't translate into English naturally. I'd say the USA names should be in the parenthesis because they're so goofy... Youjuu (Wilder) for instance. That way at least you never switch conventions just because this game is newer (ie. localized) than some other one.　--Yksehtniycul 12:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)　 :That's been what I wanted to do since the beginning in order to keep things more logical, clean and user friendly. Because, while the Japanese demons never change, the English version has demons like Preta who regularly becomes Gaki and then changes back. I was also in favor of siding with the Japanese titles since Atlus USA has a bad habit of tacking the word "Shin Megami Tensei" on front of every game they release. You can see the whole argument about it on Talk:Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon. It gets kinda stupid at points, and Blue pretty much can't be reasoned with. The whole thing soured my opinion of the wiki, which I used to enjoy working on, and even somewhat soured my enjoyment of Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, so I pretty much just said "fuck it" and haven't really been back since. I have noticed several of your edits and posts on talk pages and I think you're definitely moving on the right track of getting everything accurate and clean. If you wanted to try to run against Blue's policy, I've got your back because it would mean returning to the policies we had before. Otherwise, he's going to want to side with the English localization no matter what. SeventhEvening 16:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::Well, I'm cool with Bluer, and probably the last thing this wiki could use is drama. I think whoever is most committed to editing and staying with the wiki should have the last say. I've really no interest in editing for editing sake. I mostly have just been editing stuff that really bugs me. My editing ventures will probably slow to a halt eventually. As far as my talk edits go, I'm just trying to be helpful. Don't wanna butt any heads. I am worried about infighting though. It's especially problematic if a core editor ups and leaves... especially if editors have to clean up their editing style after the fact. But not being perfectly organized can also cause problems in the long run. It's best to sort everything out from the start. I do fear tying the wiki to Atlus USA is like stapling an expiration date to it. This is already better than the Megaten Haven wiki. I'd like to see it keep heading in a positive direction IMO --Yksehtniycul 16:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC) :::Well, I was pretty committed to the wiki, but I have real life to deal with as well, so I sometimes go missing. We had everything sorted and agreed on from the start, but suddenly, Bluer decided that he completely wanted to change it and side with Atlus USA on everything. It's already caused several problem, such as a user who added Devil Survivor to Shin Megami Tensei (Series) and things like that. It's downright confusing to have the words "Shin Megami Tensei" on the front of every article. Several other users agreed, but no one really wants to fight about it as bad as Bluer does. I really joined this project shortly after it was founded due to Megaten Haven's Wiki being hard to access and confusing because it didn't have enough organization. I've liked your edits so far, so keep up the good work. I'll keep putting my 2-cents in the talk pages, but it's unlikely that I come back to editing at this time. SeventhEvening 21:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::::So I take it you're not making new pages atm? I know you're 2nd or 3rd top editor (checked the stats earlier) ...Bluer can't do everything alone, and whenever a project gets down to one person it tends to look like one man's insane task (not that it ever is by default, but it just looks bad) ::::I'm just making vanity edits, nothing more (well maybe some sanity edits... before I get in too much trouble) ::::There just aren't enough of us old timers active in the community any more. Megami Tensei lost its hipness when the games started to be localized. Before then it was a close-knit DIY community. ::::I totally agree the main info pages should not be based on Atlus USA titles. I also don't think it's a good idea to make a wiki so narrow as to call it a North American English wiki. Even en.wikipedia is good enough for the UK and the US. And most of the world learns/use English as a second language. Why alienate your effort from the rest of the world. If it was "my" wiki I'd do everything I could to make it multilingual even. --Yksehtniycul 21:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC) :::::Haha, if it were my wiki I'd do the same. I've loved Megaten since playing Shin Megami Tensei way back in the day. I think it's unique in it's "Chaos vs. Law" and it's "Good and Evil are perspectives". I started working on this wiki because when I was playing one of the games, I found there wasn't as much of a wealth of information online as I thought there should be, especially since Megaten is the third of the "Three Great RPG Franchises". I wanted people who were introduced to Megaten via something like Persona 3 could go back and see how revolutionary the series was. I really don't dislike Atlus USA or their localizations. They came a long way since Revelations: Persona. But they're far from perfect and they've got some serious bad habits with game naming, so I don't really want to side with them in the case of a disagreement between their script and the source. When I said this before, I was called and Elitist Fanboy Prick by Bluer. I pretty much decided I'd wash my hands of the whole thing and leave. Unfortunately, my long list of Watched pages and my love for Megaten keeps drawing me back. But I've not been making any new pages. I feel Devil Summoner 2 is Soul Hackers, and I don't really want to type Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon 2000 times while trying to fill in more information about the game. SeventhEvening 21:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::::::I've been called elitist for sure, but that of course is what you want when it comes to wiki business!! I'm definitely not a fanboy though. I actually think Atlus USA is a benign trouble. I've more bones to pick with Atlus over in Japan. Also Kazuma Kaneko swelling ego over the years has totally turned me off Megaten games more or less as far as visuals go. I still love the original stuff, pre SMT really. And MIP was brilliant, but too bad P2 was the worst Megaten game ever (most serious long time fans will agree) ...so anyway, not a fanboy. I encouraged Bluer's callousness in our forums at digitaldevildb.com, but I assumed he was just dealing with angry nerds, whereas there definitely seems to be an undercurrent of mutual abuse around here. Personally I'm always at the end of some nerds ire because I'm neither nerdy nor angry enough to warrant approval (but at least I'm functional) ...I encourage you to stick with it. I'd be happy to try to broker a compromise, but like I've said, I don't even do content at our website. I'm just an administrator. --Yksehtniycul 22:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::::::Oh I was going to just tack this on at the bottom of this section, but since you mentioned Atlus USA. I gotta say, I don't know why they stubbornly stick with all the weird ass family names, when their characters all have Japanese names, and their games are set in Japan (more so than probably any other game in the market short of a Yakuza simulator) but they would rather use "Lady" than Jiboshin. Oh well... Mostly I just find the Atlus USA games to be intellectually insulting. --Yksehtniycul 22:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC) :::::::Well, I don't know anything about Kaneko's ego or really much at all about the man, but they didn't use him much in P3 or P4 or Devil Survivor. I actually wish he did the character designs for Devil Survivor. The artist who covered it instead did an alright job, but it doesn't really feel right given what I've played of the game. I never got to play MIP other than as Revelations, which was very painful. I wouldn't say P2 was the worst ever....but it was far from the best. I wouldn't say I'm a fanboy either. I was disappointed in parts of Soulless Army (basically most of the second half), and I hated the morality system in King Abaddon because it seemed to miss the point from SMT, and made Chaos=Evil and Law=Good a bit too much. I like the original Devil Summoner, and I liked what I've played of SMTII and I loved Nocturne. P3 was a bit hollow and P4 was basically a "Lets get it right" re-release of P3. But I must admit I've not played anything pre-SMT yet. I'm trying to find a cart of the Namcot Megami Tensei, because from what I've heard about it, it sounds right up my alley. And you could try to compromise, but I doubt it will work out. When i tried to compromise, I was told that there was no compromise and we had to either use stick with Atlus USA or we had to type in Japanese. Both options were pretty far from where I was aiming. ::::::As for those Family names....Atlus didn't seem sure they knew what they were doing when they released Nocturne. Several demons that are in both Chinese and Japanese mythology wound up using the Chinese name, which didn't make much sense. Some demons were downright messed up in Avatar Tuner, like one of the bosses who couldn't decide if it was phoenix or suzaku. Also, even though the mythological reference of Aegis were obvious, they went with Aigis instead. And for the intellectually insulting bit, they tack Shin Megami Tensei on the front of EVERYTHING. I mean, they have come a long way since the Revelations, but they could still be a bit better. SeventhEvening 22:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC) :::::: Now that there are two separate pages for Tsuchigumo and Gyuuki, shouldn`t when you search for Gyuki redirect to him instead to Tsuchigumo? --Yafusa 22:07, July 10, 2012 (UTC)